JnAna marga answer to a question in satsang

Question: Some who worship KRShNa claim that there exists a KRShNa loka that is Nondual and beyond the lokas described in the Vedas. What should one make of this statement?

Answer:  The term KRShNa loka to characterize the Nondual state is a contradiction in terms, like the horn of a hare, or the son of a barren woman. Nowhere in the Bhagavad GItA, which is the word of SrI KRShNa Himself, is there any mention of KRShNa loka. Nor is any mention of this to be found in the Vedas or Upanishads either. Such a statement cannot come from either a mind that has had direct experience of the Nondual state that is the source of the Vedas, nor can it come from a mind that has studied the Bhagavad GItA, Upanishads or Vedas.

The word loka in Sanskrit cannot admit a Nondual experience, being as loka is an object of perception.

If one were to attain mergence with KRShNa, then that mind is KRShNa, the act of knowing is KRShNa and the object of knowing is KRShNa. What world or loka will be left to be perceived in that state of samAdhi?

If all is indeed KRShNa, then what need is there for that name? The name exists only in the realm of the mind, for direct experience in meditation validates the Upanishadic statement (Chand. Up.) that the mind is nothing but speech and form.

Does anyone wake up every day and say "I am so and so?" There is no need to affirm one's existence in this way! So too it is with the Self. The Self does not need a Name. The Name is important in a certain stage of practice to fix the mind. Once the mind dissolves in the Name it must then transcend name and form. So the name is secondary once the Nameless has been known.

The mind of the sincere sAdhaka can get doubts through interaction with external world. There is also an intellectual desire for consistency and integration of different schools of thought. But the wise sAdhaka seeks the Kingdom of God within.

The discriminating mind chooses Limitlessness over limitations. Viveka (or discrimination) must be cultivated at all stages. Arguments must be weighed and a highly advanced intellect is needed to tread the path of jnAna and discriminate between the true and the false. This viveka when cultivated to its culminating point is able to discriminate between the Real that is Eternal and the transient that is composed of name and form.

Name and form creates distinction and separateness or duality. It cannot exist in Nondual experience.

Objection: Yet, even in the devi kavacam there is reference in the end to an abode of Shiva, vide

शिवलोकमवाप्नोति शिवेन सह मोदते

(The aspirant) attains the abode of Shiva and rejoices there with Shiva.

What should the aspirant make of this reference?

Answer:  In the path of bhakti, different Names and Forms are assigned to the divinities in which the Nameless, Formless Self manifests. The intent is that by burning devotion to the इष्ट देवता (Chosen Ideal), the devotee merges into the Name and Form of the इष्ट देवता (Chosen Ideal). This is savikalpa samAdhi (see other posts on samAdhi and article on the sadhanaguidance website about the same). This is samAdhi with bIja (seed). The seed is the Name or the Form. Adoration of the Name or Form is a very good start to the practice or sAdhanA. However, after savikalpa samAdhi on Name and Form, the nirvikalpa samAdhi is to be practiced. That is meditation on the Formless and Nameless.

The very nature of thought, and the mind is nothing but thought, has been represented by the TrimUrti (the Vedic Trinity) of Brahma, ViShNu and Shiva. Brahma is the emergence of thought (and hence the Creation of all worlds) and is associated with Rajas. ViShNu is the sustenance of thought and the perception (and hence Sustenance of the worlds) and is associated with Sattva guNa. Shiva is the end of thought (and hence Destruction of the worlds) and is associated with Tamas.

However, the intelligent one will recognize that the word ViShNu actually means pervasion. Therefore ViShNu is simply the aspect of Consciousness when perceived by the mind as being All-pervading.

Similarly, Shiva means the Auspicious one, which is the auspicious aspect of Consciousness as perceived by the mind.

The beginner's mind associates very specific forms with these Personifications of the Self and thinks of them as different. In Devi worship, the Power of the One Consciousness as Shakti is conceived of as the very substratum of the three GuNas and therefore Brahma, ViShNu and Shiva are depicted as arising only from the Power of Devi.

Om tat sat
Krishnarpanamastu
Brahmarpanamastu

KRShNa lIla through YogamAyA

Playfulness of KRShNa's lIla (play) through YogamAyA. Game of hide and seek!

Ego's manifestations...

Ego, bringing about sense of doership, then comes ignorance that manifests as sense of responsibility and the viper of obligation.

Then, not seeing simplicity of abiding in Self.

If rajo tamas predominates, then impoliteness, etc. as when a child like a fool kicks at its own mother.

If sattva predominates, then wisdom dawns.

Although omnipresent, God becomes invisible to the active mind.

How wisdom manifests itself in satsang.

How wisdom manifests itself in satsang. In the mAnava dharma shAstra it is said that disciples or brahmacAris should stand in the presence of Guru.

Reason: until disciple realizes Guru as God, the prANa will leave the body without Realization having been established. Mind still active will take a lower birth. On the other hand the sannidhi of God or BhagavAn or Guru results in prANa leaving through brahmarandhra and there is no rebirth. Recall the story of Shiva and Daksha. This is also the reason why Daksha suffers after insulting Shiva by not standing up in his presence. But in Kali Yuga sometimes the guru stands while disciples sit, shUdras propound the vedas and guru seva is unheard of in some places! Approaching the sannidhi of guru with respect, paying due respect, and giving precedence in seating to those who have been in Guru sannidhi longer, leaving the place better than you found it, are all examples of wisdom in action.

True meaning of padmAsana

The true meaning of padmAsana is that the mind should be seated in the lotus of the Heart (i.e. the Self).

The I that suffers and the I that rejoices...

The I that suffers is not the real I.

The I that rejoices is also not the real I. 

The I that always simply Is, is the real I. 

Resting in it is Peace and Bliss Eternal. 

On that canvas the false play of mind and world are enacted by the Power of the Self that is non-different from It. 

Meaning of the vAlmIkI story

The meaning of the vAlmIkI story. VAlmIki's family won't accept the fruits of his sins; meaning that action even for the sake of others if done out of ignorance with desire for the fruits is sin. So unless one is prepared to renounce the fruits of action done even for family, that action will eventually cause pain. Your so-called family will let you know of your ignorance (sin) unremittingly until you cease to act with any trace of desire. Act only if one is capable of being immune to any accusations even if your intentions be pure.

Free will and determinism (again!)

When the actor in a movie is projected on to a screen, from the viewpoint of the screen does the actor have free will, or not?

So many movies play on the screen.

Recall Shakespeare "And one man in his time plays many parts" etc; the screen is the substratum of all parts, animate and inanimate. That Thou Art.

Is a zebra black with white stripes or white with black stripes?

Is a zebra black with white stripes or white with black stripes?

In the context of sAdhanA, this depends on the perspective.

To a jnAni the default is Eternal changeless bliss on which is superimposed change. In such a state one may thus say that the zebra has no stripes(!); in fact the zebra is the Self and nothing else.

To the ajnAni the default is change in the midst of which the Eternal or changeless is sought, but it feels elusive. The mind then wonders why the ignorance arose in the first place. The zebra may seem to be black with a promise of white stripes that are yet to be seen! (Of course, for the sake of being scientifically correct one might argue that this is the right answer, but some liberties are being taken here in drawing this analogy.)

Such questions don't arise once the Truth is experienced directly.

As sAdhanA deepens and the Truth is at least glimpsed once, then the mind as it gets purified might find that the zebra is white with black stripes.

The question is irrelevant for the Self, which is "pre"-mind and "pre"-thought, and hence "pre"-questions.

Therefore viveka, or discrimination between the Real (Eternal) and Unreal (transient), is the first step in sAdhanA.

Without this discrimination it is hard to develop faith and perseverance in sAdhanA.

Satsang perceived as something external is also mAyA.

Satsang perceived as something external is also mAyA. Sat is always there. It is Eternal. Sang is association or attachment. True purpose of satsang is to lead to nissangatvam, or non-attachment.

In this sense, the purpose of satsang is just like the great poet KAlidAs cutting the branch that he was sitting on. Association with the wise leads to the desire for non-association with the world.

And yet, when Realization is complete it is seen that external Satsang is also the Self. It is only the dRShti, or vision that changes.

Therefore, for the sAdhaka desirous of Liberation, of all associations, satsang is the best association to cultivate.

DvA suparNA and asmitA

DvA suparNA is the beginning of a verse in the MuNDaka Upanishad:

द्वा सुपर्णा सयुजा सखाया समानं वृक्षं परिषस्वजाते ।

तयोरन्य: पिप्पलं स्वाद्वत्त्यनश्नन्नन्यो अभिचाकशीति ॥

Two golden birds that are ever associated and have similar names, cling to the same tree. Of these, the one eats the fruit of divergent tastes, while the other merely looks on without eating. 

The feeling of asmitA, which is a klesha in the Yoga SUtra is puruSha entangled with guNas, which is the state of the jIvAtma. Just see the guNas playing with guNas like the other bird, paramAtma.

One has been a Virocana and an Indra too.

One has been a Virocana and an Indra too. Both Indra and Virocana approached Brahma for instruction on the Supreme Self. Virocana was satisfied with his first interpretation of Brahma's instruction and took the self (body) to be the Self. Indra, not satisfied with his own interpretation, returned to Brahma until his doubts were laid to rest and by perseverance attained the state of the Supreme Self. One has been a Virocana and an Indra too.

World is nothing but the tentacles of an octopus grasping at each other ...

World is nothing but the tentacles of an octopus grasping at each other, each tentacle thinking it is the real octopus. The wife and others are loved for the sake of the Self.

Seeing the Lord precedes mergence with the Lord.

Seeing the Lord precedes mergence with the Lord.

Mind can apparently temporarily get satisfied with logic

Mind can apparently temporarily get satisfied with logic, but the trace presence of apparent illogic anywhere and in anyone in the perceived world serves to remind it that the Truth is beyond logic and illogic since it is beyond causality itself. If you see a dunce in another then at that point the mind has emerged and moved away from the Self. But this is not to say that the unyoked mind can take illogic. As long as empirical relations need to be transacted one must take recourse to wisdom.

Faraway, so close.

Faraway, so close.

Physical proximity of body doesn't connote proximity of mind.

Space (and hence, distance) and time are conceived of by the mind.

When the mind dissolves, who or what is close and what is far?

Isn't everything nondifferent from the Self then?

Note: 'Faraway, so close' is the name of a movie by Wim Wenders.

He who conquers rajas attains the state of Brahma.

He who conquers rajas attains the state of Brahma; conquering sattva, that of ViShNu; and conquering tamas, that of Shiva.

That which is to be understood cannot be spoken of...

That which is to be understood cannot be spoken of. 

That which is spoken by one who has understood, is not understood unless the mind is ripe. 

Therefore, of what use is speech in most situations?

He who controls the mind controls the world.

He who controls the mind controls the world.

The different levels of disciples' mind

Best disciple does not need to be told. Sattva is high. Automatically divines what is to be done and not done.

Middling disciple cannot divine on own owing to higher levels of rajas and tamas. But on being told the middling disciple will listen and adopt the recommended behavior and desist from that which is not recommended.

However the lowest order of disciple, even on being explicitly told what not to do and what to do, cannot grasp and follow the teaching. For such disciples the proportion of tamas is too high for spiritual instruction.

Those minds must get their instruction in the external world and seem to undergo countless sufferings before wisdom dawns. Their behavior is on account of dullness of the intellect: manda buddhi. For such ones, even if they are in Shiva's presence they cannot grasp the instruction.

The entire variety of such minds may even be encountered in different experiences that the sAdhaka undergoes. The purpose of this experience is to remain steadfast in the Self and to not be moved by the mAyA of the apparent suffering of the bodily embodiment's family members and others.

Remember mAtA ca pArvati etc and also the mAyA sItA in rAmAyaNa.

Eventually it is seen that the minds of the various levels of disciples are only within oneself. The same mind having taken different bodies in the past also went through such experiences: rejecting Guru and then slowly accepting etc. Cf SrI KRShNa in BG "I know all my previous births but you do not."

All these are only in the Self AtmA as pure Consciousness and in fact there is nothing but the Self AtmA the true I. Knowing so the unreal game can play on. Apparent pain is necessary for apparent growth.

Why does sAdhanA seem to be taking so long to bear fruit?

Aim for cessation of thought but the apparent passage of time between this resolve and its permanence may seem long.

In the Bhagavad GItA 6.25 SrI KRShNa says

शनै: शनैरुपरमेद् बुद्ध्या धृतिर्गृहीतया ।

अअत्मसंस्थं मन: कृत्वा न किञ्चिदपि चिन्तयेत् ॥

Slowly, slowly one must withdraw by degrees, by the buddhi held with firmness.

Having established the mind in the Self, he should not think of anything else.

My father used to draw the analogy of samsAra with a silk dress thrown on a brambly bush. It can only be withdrawn gently and with great care.

Purusha is the silk dress and the brambles are the guNas.

Dare I disturb the Universe? as T. S. Eliot wrote.

Yet if the "I" dissolves, then everything is ok. 

SUtradhAra (the support of the string)

SUtradhAra, the support of the string, is the power of sequencing not only lives but thoughts (for what is a life but a sequence of thoughts?). Just like a caterpillar the mind goes from one thought to next, so no reason to accept anything or reject anything.

Causality is a construct of the mind.

Causality is a construct of the mind. This is the only thought that is as terrifying as the loss of aham (I) and simultaneously as liberating.

Only the Power of Consciousness creates the sequence of thoughts and mind strings them together and tries to make sense of them. The only utility to thought being those thoughts that point to the cessation of thought!

It is the dual for Ishvara.

Here the notion of "dual" is used in the sense of mathematics or science and engineering, and with the dual in the spiritual path indicating brahmANDA piNDANDaikyam (Oneness of microcosm and macrocosm).

However, the apparent lack of apparent causality does not bother the Self.

The Yoga VasiShTha should only be read by very advanced aspirant, for that is where causality is questioned.

Even reading is unnecessary.

The Buddhistic view of life being a sequence of experiences is not different from nirguNa brahman.

Recall also in this context the dRShti sRShti vAda of SrI RamaNa MahaRShi.

Unstable mind seeks interaction with the world

Unstable mind seeks interaction with the world to make choices but does not want to take the true advice of sAttvic buddhi which is nothing other than the Self, and which is available in the peace of meditation. Getting disturbed the mind seeks advice in the world of sense perception, but the advice of God or Guru in the external world always seems tough and harsh. Hence duhkham eva sarvam vivekinah: the wise see all experience as painful. It is rajas that creates the sense world and the fruit of rajas is pain. Then when that wisdom dawns, what seemed hard to exercise in the sense world, i.e. restraint of the senses, is found to be the easier path. Taking advice from inner Guru is easier than taking it from external Guru.

Don't judge a jnAni ...

Don't judge a jnAni by the mere steadiness of body posture or by your perceived correctness or incorrectness of his actions. For does the world not appear to be full of activity, injustice and wickedness, and is yet the One Self, unmoving and pure and changeless. So until the jnAna cakshu (eye of wisdom) is opened and the world is seen as the Self, better not judge anyone's posture or actions, let alone a jnAni's. This is not the same as being without discrimination, however.

Har zarra camakta hai anwAr e ilAhi se (Every atom shines due to the light of the Lord)

Har zarra camakta hai anwAr e ilAhi se

Every atom shines due to the light of the Lord which is Consciousness of the Self. 

Har saans ye kahta hai hum hain to khudA bhi hain

Every breath proclaims that if we exist so does the Lord. 

Flow of electricity through wire generates heat only if there is resistance to conduction.

Flow of electricity through wire generates heat only if there is resistance to conduction.

So also it is only the ego's resistance to the Lord's Power, which is the flow of Consciousness that generates the worlds.

Surrender (Islam) to the flow and there will be no pain.

Then the mind becomes one with pure Consciousness.

Why does outgoing mind develop egoic resistance? Due to non-extinction of past vAsanas. For that, tapas, svAdhyAya and Ishvara praNidhAnam (islam, surrender). And the preceding steps of aShtAnga yoga.

The hump in sAdhanA on the inner journey...

There is a hill on the inner journey that must be overcome. For the kRtopAsaka, one who has done upAsana (or devotion and service of the Lord) the inner pain easier is seen to be easier to overcome than the outer. Recall Yama's instruction to naciketa on shreyah and preyah. Those who seek power in the outer worlds are the marIcInAm padamicchanti vedhasah of the puruSha sUktam: they seek the status of marIci and dominion of the transient worlds.

Inner pain is easier than outer...

There is a hump or potential well or hill that one has to surmount on the inner journey that is greatly simplified for the kRtopAsaka (one who has performed devotion to the Lord).

The pain encountered on the inner path as one transcends the prANamayakosha (prANic body) and as the nADis are cleansed by nADishodana, and the clearing of the cakras as kuNDalini rises, is still less than the pain experienced as the senses go outward. 

Recall naciketa's words to Yama. Also in the PuruSha sUktam it is said

marIcInAm padamicchanti vedhasah

The lesser ones aim for the status of MarIci, who is is a son of Brahma, a RShi and reckoned as one of the prajApatis (Creators of mankind).

In other words, one should not aim to be a Brahma or PrajApati that bestows mastery of the worlds, but look beyond to the Ultimate goal of Self Realization.

 

The allure of godmen is there even for sincere aspirants.

The allure of godmen even for sincere aspirants. The lure of instant attainment of dramatic experiences such as cosmic Consciousness without effort. But remember kRtopAsaka and akRtopAsaka. If upAsana (devotion and service to the Lord) has been kRta (done), then one can have such dramatic experiences on one's own without any godmen.

How to fight?

How to fight ( i.e. Engage with external world) and always win: become indifferent to either outcome or see good in either outcome.

Same point is there in the Bhagavad GItA:

हतो वा प्राप्स्यसि स्वर्गं जित्वा वा भोक्ष्यसे महीं

hato vA prApsyasi svargam  jitvA vA bhokshyase mahIm.

Dying in battle you will attain Heaven or winning you will enjoy the World.

This yoga resulting from vicAra leads to invincibility, fearlessness and absence of sorrow. Fear and sorrow only apply to pleasing or unpleasing experiences of the senses and the ego; they do not pertain to the real Self. The changeability of mind's attitude towards same object ranges from rAga (attraction) to dvesha (revulsion). Resorting to the Self one transcends both.

Slow down the reaction to new thoughts ...

Slow down the reaction to new thoughts so as to reach the ultimate non-reaction: parA vairAgyam. Indifference to the guNas themselves.

Once the mind becomes aware of its fallibility and ceases to be convinced of its doership ...

Once the mind becomes aware of its fallibility and ceases to be convinced of its doership and always being right then we'd like others to know we always love them regardless of how they may perceive our actions. So first we must accept that others love us in spite of how we may perceive their actions towards us: as loving or otherwise. Forgive us our trespasses...

As naciketa says to Yama, the contact of senses with objects depletes or weakens prANa.

As naciketa says to Yama, the contact of senses with objects depletes or weakens prANa. Even hiraNyagarbha gets weakened eventually and pralaya ensues but one's true nature is even beyond that. Hence to become indifferent to even nivRtti (inward moving mind) and pravRtti (outward moving mind).

Difficult to understand mind of a jnAni and his actions.

It is difficult to understand mind of a jnAni and his actions. So also with mind of God. They are after all the same. So to the extent one doesn't understand the play of the world and its purpose for bhoga apavargArtham (experience and liberation) stemming from remaining ignorance in the mind, to the same extent one cannot understand the minds of jnAnis.

The allure of godmen exists even for sincere aspirants.

The allure of godmen exists even for sincere aspirants.

The lure of instant attainment of dramatic experiences such as cosmic Consciousness without effort.

So many pay money to this Svami or the other in the hopes of gaining that person's grace.

But remember kRtopAsaka and akRtopAsaka. If upAsana has been kRta (devotion has been previously performed to the Lord), then one can have such dramatic experiences on one's own without any godmen.

How to fight and always win?

How to fight (i.e. engage with external world) and always win?

Become indifferent to either outcome or see good in either outcome.

Same idea in the BG

hato vA prApsyasi svargam  jitvA vA bhokshyase mahIm.

Dying you will attain heaven, or victorious you will enjoy on this earth.

This yoga resulting from vicAra leads to invincibility, fearlessness and absence of sorrow.

Fear and sorrow arise only from unpleasantness to the senses or ego.

Changeability of mind's attitude towards same object from rAga to dvesha should be noted. It passes, because the mind changes. It is never either always positive or always negative towards objects in the world. But it can be made always unmoved by rAga or dvesha.  

Slow down the reaction to new thoughts

Slow down the reaction to new thoughts so as to reach the ultimate non-reaction: parA vairAgyam. Indifference to the guNas themselves.

Once the mind becomes aware of its fallibility...

Once the mind becomes aware of its fallibility and ceases to be convinced of its doership and always being right, then we'd like others to know we always love them regardless of how they may perceive our actions.

So first we must accept that others love us in spite of how we may perceive their actions towards us: as loving or otherwise.

Same sentiment expressed in:
"Forgive us our trespasses etc"

As naciketa says to Yama, the contact of senses with objects depletes or weakens prANa.

As naciketa says to Yama, the contact of senses with objects depletes or weakens prANa. Even hiraNyagarbha gets weakened eventually and pralaya ensues but one's true nature is even beyond that. Hence to become indifferent to even nivRtti and pravRtti.

Difficult to understand mind of a jnAni and his actions.

Difficult to understand mind of a jnAni and his actions. So also with mind of God. They are after all the same. So to the extent one doesn't understand the play of the world and its purpose for bhoga apavargArtham (experience and liberation)  stemming from remaining ignorance in the mind, to the same extent one cannot understand the minds of jnAnis.